Charts for Shiur 16

Review Answers Shiur 17

Review Answers Shiur 17

1) This means that that which has become issur (by absorbing some pleitat issur) does not, in turn, have the power to spread this issur further that the original issur could have spread. For example, salt used to salt meat absorbs blood from the meat. Even though the salt is neveila from the blood, and even though the salt can spread beyond 60 because it gives such a strong taste, the blood in the salt can only spread up until 60. So if the salt falls into soup where it is less than 1/60 but it can still be tasted, the soup is still mutar because the blood is botal b'shishim.

2) This is learned from the fact that a klipa or n'tila that is assur will not consequently osser the rest of the piece.

3) This din appears to be in contradiction to reach milta which says that a substantial odor of issur is able to spread issur. By raiach milta, we learn that heter shamen will mefatem issur kachush and cause the issur to spread by pi-puah.

4) If heter shamen is roasted next to issur kachush, the heter is ossur until 60. This is because the shamen will go into the issur, mefatem the issur, and cause the issur to mefapeah throughout the heter.

5) The Taz holds that issur kachush absorbed in heter shamen will not spread with the shamen. His proof is 69:18 where a piece of meat is salted in a kli she-einu menukav. The meat outside of the tzir is mutar even if the mean is shamen because the ossur blood and tzir cannot mefatem.

6) The Gilyon Maharsha brings 4 types of pitum:
1. Shamen absorbed in issur kachush will carry our issur blias with the shamen;
2. A chaticha of shamen that abosrbs kachush blias will spread the kachush with its own blias;
3. Issur balua shamen will spread on its own from one piece to another;
4. Shamen that is balua along with an issur balua will spread the issur along with it.

7) The Taz argues with 1 and 4:
1. This is like 69:18 brought in answer #4. The shemen will spread but will not mefatem the issur and carry it where it couldn't spread on its own.
4. The Taz rejects this by the same svora.

8) According to the Pri Chadash if the issur is shamain you do not have to remove a n'tila. If the issur is kachush then a n'tila must be removed. According to R' Akiva Eiger even by shamain a n'tila does not have to be removed because the part that became assur is batel b'rov.

Review Answers Shiur 16

1)A kli shaini will not cook. The proof is from the gemora in Shabbos. According to the Rashba it will be maflit and mavlia a klipa. The proof is from shechita. According to the Tur it will be maflit and mavlia b'kulo.

2) If the food is a liquid, according to the Rashal the liquid begins to cool when it touches the cool sides of the kli sheini; thus liquids in a kli sheini doesn't cook (but solids do). According to the Rama, liquids hold heat better (i.e., they cool slower) than solids, so since a liquid in a kli sheini will not cook neither will a solid.

3) According to the Bach, hot meat in a kli sheini that was cut with a milchig ben yomo knife is mutar but the knife is assur. The meat in the kli sheini is hot enough to maflit meat blias and cause them to be absorbed into the knife but not hot enough to maflit milk blias from the knife and boleah them into the meat.

4) Whether or not kli rishon on the fire cooks if it is not yad soledet bo is a machloket:
Rashal -- We make a harchaka and say that it cooks lest we come to leave it there until it gets hot.
Taz -- Kli rishon doesn't osser unless it is yad soledet bo.
Shach -- It doesn't cook, but we are machmir to osser the food k'dai klipa.

5) A kli sheini does not cook, but l'chatchila it does mavlia, maflit, or both. The Shach holds that it will ossur a klipa and is maikil in a hesed for example a kli cheres.

6) According to the Rashal a kli shaini will not be maflit and mavlia simultaneously. According to the Bach a kli shaini will not be maflit and mavlia simultaneously will not maflit taste that is absorbed in something else

7) (a) Rama - the heter is assur k'dai klipa at the point where the issur and heter touched.
Taz, citing Rashal - Everything is assur, but we can be maikil and say that it is assur k'dai klipa in a hefsed merubah. Shach - the heter is assur k'dai klipa.
(b) Rama - the heter is assur k'dai klipa at the point where the issur and heter touched. The Taz and Shach agree.

8) (a) Rama and Shach - both assur k'dai klipa.
Taz - Basar assur k'dai klipa and chalav assur kulo. In a hefsed m'rubeh, we can be maikil and say that it is assur k'dai klipa.
(b) Rama and Shach - both assur kdai klipa.
Taz - chalav assur k'dai klipa and basar assur kulo, but in a hefsed m'rubeh we can be maikil as above.

9) According to the Maharshal there is no din tata gavar by kailim. Thefore, even if the food is hot and the kli is cold it will osser kulo. According to the Shach a kli follows the regular rules of tata gavar.

10) If cold food is poured into hot food.

Chart of discussion in Shiur 15

Answers to Review Questions Shiur 15

Please note that I took out question 8. Question 9 is now question 8 and I added a new 9 and 10.
9) Does vinegar have the din of water or tzir?
10) How long does it take to pickle in tzir?

Review Answers Shiur 15

1) Gemora Pesachim notes that it is a chiddush by bb"ch meat kavush in milk for 24 hours is mutar. We learn that if this is a chiddush by bb"ch, then by sha'ar issurim kavush for 24 hours is ossur.

2) By the time kavush occurs the kli blios are lifgam. Lifgam blios do not osser food.

3) The Issur v'heter holds that the entire kli is assur.
The Taz holds that the kli is assur k'dai klipa.
The Pri Megadim holds that the entire kli is assur.

4) Kli Cheres - A new kli cheres absorbs immediately even if the food is cold. If the kli is glazed, or has been used 3 times, or has been used continuously for half a day (or quarter of a day according to another version of the text), it absorbs after 24 hours.
Wood - absorbs only after 24 hours according to all.
Metal - According to the Issur v'heter, it does not absorb, and according to the Taz, it absorbs k'dai klipa,
Glass - The Pri Megadim states that in a hefsed m'rubeh, it does not absorb.

5) The Shach says that kavisha is mefatem issur shamain to the portion above the water line. Unlike melicha and tzli, we do differentiate between shamain and kachush in kavisha. The Pri Megadim, Rabbi Akiva Eiger and the Chavat Da'at all disagree with the Shach in respect of tzir, and give tzir the din of melicha, because it is salty, therefore the whole piece is assur immediately. In all other cases of kavush, Rabbi Akiva Eiger holds that kavush does not spread issur shamain above the water level. The Pri Megadim says to be machmir like the Shach if there is no hefsed m'rubeh.

6) Sofek kavush means that we aren't sure if the kavisha was for a full 24 hours. In such cases, the Rama is machmir and holds that sofek kavush is kavush -- except in a case of basar b'chalav where we matir sofek kavush. The Taz argues with this and says that a sofek (sofek kavush) cannot overpower a chazaka (the food has a chazaka of heter) to osser.

7) 1. It was a case of sofek kavush.
2. The issur is based on an asai rather than a lo-ta'aseh.
3. Perhaps the non-Jew is lifgam.

8) If a chaticha falls into tzir, it is immediately ossur k'dai klipa according to the Mechaber and kulo according ot the Rama. This is because tzir is like melicha, not kavisha.

9) According to the Mechaber vinegar has the din of tzir, however this contradicts Simon 104. According to the Shach it has the din of water. The Magen Avraham differentiates between strong vinegar and weak vinegar.

10) Between 6 and 18 minutes.

Quiz #1 SHULCHAN ARUCH 98-103

1. When Yaakov asked Pierre to add his Magic Spice, is that called “m'vatel issur l’chatchila”?
When Yaakov asked Pierre to add his "Magic Spice", it is not a case of mevatel issur l'chatchila. This is because Yaakov had no awareness that there was any issur involved.
2. Is Yaakov allowed to directly ask Pierre to taste the soup and can we believe Pierre?
Pierre is certainly a k'faila so we can believe his expert opinion. After Pierre tastes the soup, Yaakov can taste it, so Pierre wouldn't lie and tell him there is no milk taste if in fact there is. As the case is given, Pierre doesn't know that the soup will be permitted to Yaakov if he says there is no taste -- based on Yaakov's prior statement, Pierre thinks the soup is forbidden. He has no incentive to lie. Thus Yaakov can believe him and hold by his expertise. L'halacha though the Rema (98.1) paskins that we do not rely on the taste of a goy, and the Kaf HaChaim (98.2) says that the minhag of the Sephardim is to follow the Rema. In that case whatever Pierre says is not relevant and so he cannot be asked.
3. If we do not know for certain that there was 60 against the piece of meat that Pierre added, what is the din of the meat and the sauce?
This is a case of nishpach. In this case, the meat in question is ossur d'oraisa as either treif or nevaila, so we cannot be maikil. This is also a case of min b'mino v'aino mino. In such a case we hold like the Rashba that we view the ta'aruvos as if the sauce isn't there; the two pieces of meat mevatel the other piece. Now that the 3 pieces of meat are permitted, the sauce is also permitted -- once the piece is mutar it doesn't need further bitul to matir the sauce. L'halacha, we have here a machlokes Shach and Taz. The Taz (5) allows the meat and the sauce while the Shach (8) only allows the meat.
4. Is the chopped liver muter?
The question is whether the liver is ch'r'l. According to the Taz (10) since cut pieces of skin are ch'r'l even though each individual piece is not a ch'r'l so too chopped liver would be a ch'r'l. According to the Nekudas Hakesef each piece must be a ch'r'l therefore chopped liver is not a ch'r'l and in our case would be batel in 60. The halacha is like the Nekudas Hakesef (Sifsai Da'as).
5. Is the bone soup ossur?
The bones will not ossur the stew unless they are soft (Shach 1). The only thing we have to worry about is the marrow. If there is 60 against the marrow of the ossur bones the stew is muter. According to the Mechaber we can be mitztaref the ossur bones to be mevatel the marrow and according to the Rama we can only be mitztaref the bones in a hefsed m'rubeh.
6. Can the rest of the chicken soup be eaten since we found three ants?
The soup must be strained (Simon 100:4) or each spoonful can be checked.
7. Can the soup be eaten even though it was cooked in a ben yomo milk pot?
No. Even though there was linas layla, since 24 hours did not pass from milk to meat the soup is ossur.
8. Did the ladle ossur the soup?
If there is 60 against the half cup of milk it would not ossur the soup (Since the milk is heter there is no ch'n'n on the ladle).
9. What happens if the ladle was used twice?
This was not brought in Ta'aruvos. We learned in Basar B'chalav that according to the Mechaber 120 against the spoon is needed and according to the Rama only 60 is needed. However, since this is chicken and milk the Mechaber does not hold of ch'n'n since it is only ossur mid'rabbanan so he would agree to the Rama.
10. Is the coffee pot a kli sh’mshtamshin b’shefa?
Yes, since even one cup of coffee has more than 60 against a drop. However, according to the Taz it can only be used if the drop will be pogaim the coffee.